Trump or Hillary?

[TW]

We are caught in a lose-lose situation. If Trump is elected, we're going to sink lower in the eyes of the world than we were during the Bush administration, and that was possibly the lowest level in history. If Clinton is elected, it's going to be same-o, same-o. She's going to coddle those with money to insure they don't get burned.

As far as choices of VPs, neither selected a person that I want to see sitting in the Oval Office even for a visit. I guess that old thing about not hiring anyone smarter than you are to protect your image, came into play on this one.

In November, we're going to see which way the toilet swirls when we flush it. To the left or right. Maybe straight down with a split of the House and Senate, or just plain stalemate with a Democratic President and Republican Congress.

I do believe though, that Congress will get off dead center and work on some compromises with Clinton over the course of 4 years, if she's elected. They don't want to see another radical like Trump taking over.

[nick20]

I disagree strongly that Clinton is anywhere near as bad as Trump. The party platforms are about as far apart as it is possible to be. The Republican Platform gets rid of the national parks, national monuments, the EPA and any law that limits mining, drilling and development. Taxes will be cut tremendously, and SS will be privatized. The Democrats want to raise the minimum wage to 15, and then index it, increase Social Security to allow more money to retirees and the disabled, and address the problems in our infrastructure. Hillary will make a good president, particularly if she can get her picks to the supreme Court confirmed, which will overturn poor decisions like Citizens United and Shelby County, which gutted the Voting Rights Act. Trump, by contrast would be the worst president in this country's history, even worse than Bush 43. There is no comparison between Trump and Hillary. Trump is a modern Mussolini or Silvio Berlesconi, in love with his own bombast.

[happypacker]

Trump is talking way to much trash, and threats, he is over-bearing. If he makes it in the oval office I would really be surprised . Clinton is a person in my eyes that will indeed be bought off by the highest bidder and make SLOW poor choices on vital matters. Where will Bill be once she takes office? I think these next four years are going to be very very hard on the American people.

[TW]

Sorry! Clinton is the lesser of two evils. I'm not looking at things from either the left, or right. I'm looking at it as a centrist. Both candidates are saying things that should scare the average American, because one is talking about elimination of middle class America, and the other is proposing turning everyone on Social Security into the "new" poor, by elevating the minimum wage and cost of living to a level that puts us all on skid row.

$15 an hour will destroy SS as it stands. Rest assured, Clinton and her supporters are not going to offer matching funding into SS to cover the short fall and the drift into poverty all of us will see.

I always tell people, about things they don't totally comprehend; "Be careful what you ask for!" It might not be what you really want. I know Obama wasn't exactly what he was supposed to be, and I voted for him.

Oh! I forgot to mention why I take Clinton over Trump. Trump is a pathological liar whose hubris will put us, as a nation, in harm's way. That's intolerable. You also don't allow a man like him to have control of the football, or be able to wage "limited war" because he's mad at someone. That's a man we should fear.

[happypacker]

Not sure how you took my last post, but I will make it clearer. I will never vote for Trump, he is border-line insane. BUT, Clinton is so buyable that I fear two things from her being President(which she will become) the working majority will lose ground. and she will not do well with other countries. we are looking at I think a economic fall and a military demise as well as NASA will take a hit. If she gets what she wants in free college for the state funded schools she will destroy the private schools and all the working people with the schools and over crowding of the funded schools and just a huge trickle down affect on the economy. now if Congress and her staff can control her thoughtless ideas(that were motivated only to get votes) then we have at least a shot with her. Trump could cause a civil war or a middle East war that could put this world in a bit of hell.

[TW]

Actually I was adding to what you're saying. Same with what Nick said. What she brings to the table will hurt us in one direction, Trump in a different direction.

I've never seen anything like this in my 75 years on earth. Both parties have stooped so low that they've let people who are totally wrong for our nation to be in a battle to see which can be President.

I agree on voting for Trump. I could never bring myself to do it because he's a pathological liar, therefore extremely dangerous to everyone and everything he touches.

[nick20]

At 15 an hour Tw the average worker will pay into SS about 5000 a year. the current estimated shortfall for SS starting in 2034 is about 100B. increasing the minimum wage will increase the amount paid into SS by workers, even if FICA taxes arent raised from the current 6.2%, because there's now more money subject to that tax. That means, current retirees like yourself, or folks on disability, like me, will see greater monthly payouts, as the amounts paid into SS increase. We then spend that extra money back into the economy, by buying the necessities of life. that in turn , creates business, Multiple that by millions of people with a little extra money in their pocket and you'll see the economy pick up, which helps SS and other programs. as for colleges, part of the reason why tuition and student debt is so high is that states are no longer picking up the costs at the same level as they did in say the 60s. Thus tuition goes up, pricing a lot of people out of going to college, So to go to college, students have take out loads of debt, which are not dischargable, even in bankruptcy. the total student debt right now is roughly 1 trillion dollars, which drains these students of earning and buying potential that takes years or even decades to pay off. Whether Clinton's proposal is the right way to go about it, is something we can debate, but imo something has to be done, not just there but elsewhere. Fixing our infrastructure, for instance, is something that will create millions of jobs, and good paying ones. Thibnk of it as something like a modern New Deal. Its estimated to to fix the backlogs in our national, state, and local parks the cost is 36B. to get our roads, dams, power stations etc, up to good standing, will cost 3-4T dollars. these are problems that have gone on for decades, slowly getting worse.

[TW]

You're deluding yourself Nick. We aren't going to see any appreciable increase in SS. They won't even go so far as to pay back what they've stolen from it. The urge to stick that money into pork barrel projects, and BS the public that there's no money there for increases, like they've done continuously since the last increase, when they promised adjustments.

Paying off student loans. So, going to pay me back the thousands and thousands we've put into education? We paid out a lot of money for education, now you want to hand someone $15 an hour which was middle income level money just 20 years ago, and a free education, while those of us who worked our arses off to get ourselves and kids educated can "suck it up again," to pay off another freaking package of entitlement for a new generation of people who, in my opinion, show little character, a lack of respect for the past, and even less respect for their elders.

You wonder why so many older people flock to the right to vote? Read what you said again. As far as repairing infrastructure, that's a given, but doesn't have anything to do with $15 an hour. If you raise the minimum to $15 an hour, $35 an hour will be too little for the guy who once thought $15 was great. You're feeding everyone the premise of a false economy based on another hand out to get lower income voters to believe that they're getting something from the system.

I'm not saying $7.50 or so is a fair minimum, but I'm saying $15 an hour is just plain absurd. You're going to drive prices in stores, restaurants, and even gas stations, up to a level that people on SS will be destitute.

As far as trust in Clinton, I have none. She's a party line politician who could care less if you live or die, as long as your last breath is to pull the lever where her name is on the ballot.

[happypacker]

I never was a smoker but here in PA> they just added another tax on cigs. that puts them at $8.00 per pack. This state has a tough time just passing a budget every year.

[happypacker]

Hillary cannot take the pressure, she is stepping on her own feet already, trying to explain herself. Is there a third party that maybe a better President than the mess we have now running?

[TW]

I agree.

[happypacker]

Trump came to my town Friday. Had a good crowd, just a couple protesters trying to ruin the day. but all went well.

[TW]

Trump hasn't gained any ground in swing states. He's pretty much riding at low tide. It can't get much work. It's Clinton's election to lose. If she at least stays the course, and doesn't act like she doesn't have good sense, she should win.

Trump is his own worst enemy. He keeps stepping on himself.

[happypacker]

he is trying not step on himself, but he cannot do it.

[nick20]

Trump is the worst presidential candidate in history, and thats saying something. there is a big disconnect in regards to Clinton, when she is running for office and when she is actually in office. Shes much more popular in office, then campaigning for office. Wonder why that is.