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Post by firemancheesehead on Mar 23, 2009 7:10:42 GMT -5
OK, now.... going back to our boy Lot. It seems the write of Peter did in fact simply 'forget' that Lot had hot wild monkey sex with his daughters..as well as Noah with his sons etc etc etc ad nauseum....
Genesis 19:32-36
However, incest is condemed by the bible and even punishable by death. Yes, I am talking OT here, but since it was against gods word..he should have been smote!
Leviticus is pretty clear about that. A lot ( no pun intended ) of Lev. ends with the death penalty.
Here's what I think. I think that the writers of the bible were trying to explain how populations grew and how other civilizations could have arisen. The only way they could think of was incest.
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Post by firemancheesehead on Mar 23, 2009 7:19:59 GMT -5
Myabe you can help me with Gen. 20. So, Abe tells Ambimelech that Sarah is his sister. An outright lie. Then god gets all torqued because Ambimelech believed ol honest Abe. Ambimelech is innocent, hasn't touched Sarah and yet, god is ready to kill him for it. Then god makes the house of Ambimelech suffer(20:18) because honest Abe lied. Nice touch!
This is a real head stratcher. Not just this, but this nearly identical story was/is repeated at least twice.
First in Gen 12:13-20 and then 26-7.
Then honest Abe tells everyone that Sarah is his sister and god approves of the marriage. 20:12
But such unions are condemed in Leviticus 18:9, 20:17, and Deuteronomy 27:22.
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mag7ue
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Post by mag7ue on Mar 23, 2009 8:41:26 GMT -5
Here's what I think. I think that the writers of the bible were trying to explain how populations grew and how other civilizations could have arisen. The only way they could think of was incest. Well, since when Adam and Eve were kicked out of the Garden of Eden it was only them and they had to reproduce somehow...yes, incest is the only possible way for that to have happened. The law forbidding incest wasn't given until later. The whole point is to avoid bad genes, but the gene pool was most likely a lot more pure in the early years following creation of the first man and woman. And I don't think the writer of Peter "forgot" about Lot's sins. Like I said - God forgives sins, and can use people for His glory no matter what we may have done. King David did some pretty evil things - adultery, then having the woman's husband killed among other things, yet is repeatedly referred to as "a man after God' own heart." Humans make mistakes - it's going to happen. It's what you do after those mistakes that matters. And where are you getting that Noah had "hot monkey sex" with his sons? |
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Post by firemancheesehead on Mar 23, 2009 10:51:25 GMT -5
re: Noah, Gen 9:21-25
This is why Ham and his descendants ( black people ) were condemed to slavery.
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Post by mag7ue on Mar 23, 2009 21:37:51 GMT -5
re: Noah, Gen 9:21-25 This is why Ham and his descendants ( black people ) were condemed to slavery. Unless you've got the NIPT (New International Porn Translation), that passage has nothing in it about people having sex. |
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Post by mag7ue on Mar 24, 2009 1:30:25 GMT -5
Myabe you can help me with Gen. 20. So, Abe tells Ambimelech that Sarah is his sister. An outright lie. Then god gets all torqued because Ambimelech believed ol honest Abe. Ambimelech is innocent, hasn't touched Sarah and yet, god is ready to kill him for it. Then god makes the house of Ambimelech suffer(20:18) because honest Abe lied. Nice touch! This is a real head stratcher. Not just this, but this nearly identical story was/is repeated at least twice. First in Gen 12:13-20 and then 26-7. Then honest Abe tells everyone that Sarah is his sister and god approves of the marriage. 20:12 But such unions are condemed in Leviticus 18:9, 20:17, and Deuteronomy 27:22. My take on this is coming...it's been a busy day so I'll probably look at it closer at home tonight. |
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Post by firemancheesehead on Mar 24, 2009 7:11:39 GMT -5
I know what you mean. I look forward to your reply
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Post by firemancheesehead on Mar 24, 2009 7:13:16 GMT -5
re: Noah, Gen 9:21-25 This is why Ham and his descendants ( black people ) were condemed to slavery. Unless you've got the NIPT (New International Porn Translation), that passage has nothing in it about people having sex. Actually, it does. It's hinted at when it says 9:24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him. |
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Post by mag7ue on Mar 24, 2009 8:40:22 GMT -5
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Post by mag7ue on Mar 24, 2009 8:53:00 GMT -5
Myabe you can help me with Gen. 20. So, Abe tells Ambimelech that Sarah is his sister. An outright lie. Then god gets all torqued because Ambimelech believed ol honest Abe. Ambimelech is innocent, hasn't touched Sarah and yet, god is ready to kill him for it. Then god makes the house of Ambimelech suffer(20:18) because honest Abe lied. Nice touch! This is a real head stratcher. Not just this, but this nearly identical story was/is repeated at least twice. First in Gen 12:13-20 and then 26-7. Then honest Abe tells everyone that Sarah is his sister and god approves of the marriage. 20:12 But such unions are condemed in Leviticus 18:9, 20:17, and Deuteronomy 27:22. Well first off, this still happened before incestuous relationships were forbidden in Leviticus and Deuteronomy. And since Sarah was Abraham's half-sister, it's not quite as much the "outright lie" you make it out to be. It's still a lie of deception, though - Abraham doesn't get a pass. Basically Abraham was scared he'd be killed so someone else could take Sarah to be their wife. So he lied - and even though he got caught in his lie, he stumbled over the same thing again later, like you mentioned. Sounds like people today, yeah? The things we struggle with are things we do over and over - for Abraham, it was lying to save his own skin. I think the reason "God got torqued" was simply to reinforce how strongly He felt/feels about adultery. His anger, whether or not He was actually going to kill Abimelech or not, sure got the message across! And I'm not sure how the house of Abimelech "suffered" - verse 17 says that he healed his household - the what he is healing them from is in verse 18. Make sense? Sorry I'm a little rushed typing this. |
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Post by firemancheesehead on Mar 24, 2009 10:44:54 GMT -5
He made all the wombs bare. Got got mad at Abimelech. Now, you must ask yourself why he'd get mad at the victim in honest Abes lie??
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Post by mag7ue on Mar 24, 2009 11:00:53 GMT -5
I did offer one possible explanation.
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Post by firemancheesehead on Mar 24, 2009 16:48:12 GMT -5
I did offer one possible explanation. No, I understand that. But Abimelech is the one who was lied to. Yet, God was gonna make sure none of his female relatives could have kids. He should have punished old honest Abe. Instead ( as usual ) the anger is misdirected towards the victims. |
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Post by mag7ue on Mar 26, 2009 10:37:09 GMT -5
No, I understand that. But Abimelech is the one who was lied to. Yet, God was gonna make sure none of his female relatives could have kids. He should have punished old honest Abe. Instead ( as usual ) the anger is misdirected towards the victims. Ok, I'll bite. You say "as usual," so you must have other examples in mind where you think God's wrath is misplaced? |
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Post by firemancheesehead on Mar 26, 2009 12:11:47 GMT -5
Yes, I am sure I do have examples, but ( like God killing all the Egyptians-because he hardened the pharohs heart). But we'll get to that late. It is, akin to blaming the rape victim for being raped in my opinion.
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