mag7ue
Practice Squad
Guru - Week #3 - 2008, #16 - 2009
Posts: 419
|
Post by mag7ue on Mar 17, 2009 1:07:20 GMT -5
Oh, and before I forget: anyone want to take a shot at the two questions I asked in my orignal post? Ya'll got a lot of my thoughts, now it's your turn.
|
|
|
|
Post by packerconvert on Mar 17, 2009 4:26:27 GMT -5
I believe the bible is a book of truth, not a book of historical true facts.
Every creature two by two in an Ark? Every creature? Two creation stories in the book of Genesis..which creation story is true?
Yet, the creation stories combined express the duality of man in my opinion, ergo a truth. Being created in teh image of god demonstrates man's ability to create and in that sense, be like God, yet we were also created from mud which expresses the "dirtyness" and filth of man.
I will not apoligize or feel guilty for not believing the bible is a historical account. I know it is a book that is put together by man, not by God. That is just my opinion arrived upon by my own experiences in life. My opinion is neither wrong or right, but right for me and God.
I have dropped to my knees in prayer in church thousands of times and heard nothing.
I only hear and feel God when I am out in the wilderness sitting on a large rock being in awe of the intracacies of nature. I do know God exists, I just don't think he exists the way the church wants us to believe and I am not going to sit and think God wrote a scarch mark down under the heading, "Lies Told" when I told my girlfriend I didn't think she was fat.
Am I really going to have to sit before God on judgement day and review that one?
|
|
|
|
Post by TW on Mar 17, 2009 8:03:51 GMT -5
If you watched TV back in the 50s, and 60s, or have become a fan of TV shows like The Rifleman, or Gunsmoke, you'd know that shoot outs on main between the town Marshal, and the bad guy was very common. It happened all the time. The truth is, there's really only one or two real shoot outs that ever happened that really resembled that. It would be the gunfight at the OK corral, and once, when Wild Bill Hickok gunned a guy down in a street fight, that was like a fast draw contest. Still, what people see is those gunfights. Even thought the gunfights they depict didn't really happen very often, the fact remains that the issue points out the fact that people recklessly carried side arms for protection, and when angered, sometimes pulled them out, and put a bullet in the next guy. In other words, they were shooting each other, they just didn't have the "rules" that we've kept hearing about, as to "who drew first." The media created the gunfight as we have seen it. The truth, unvarnished, isn't as cool. It's kind of like settlers circling their wagons to fight off Indian attacks. It makes the settlers look real smart doing it, and the Indians fools for running around in circles getting picked off their horses by sharp shooting settlers. That's not what happened. The truth isn't as flowery, so the media twisted it to make it nicer - more readable. They also painted a picture of "white man good, indian bad!"  No doubt much of what was written in the Bible was a bit flowery, but it's the intent, and the deeper meaning that we have to remember if we believe in God. |
|
|
|
Post by thegreenmeanie on Mar 18, 2009 12:29:50 GMT -5
I found another article today that kind of takes some wind out of my belief that one of the biggest reasons why most people become religious is because they're afraid of death... news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7949111.stm
Researchers followed 345 patients with terminal cancer up until their deaths.
Those who regularly prayed were more than three times more likely to receive intensive life-prolonging care than those who relied least on religion.
The team's report was published in the Journal of the American Medical Association.
It suggests that such care, including resuscitation, may make death more uncomfortable.
Just over 30% of those asked agreed with the statement that religion was "the most important thing that keeps you going". Very interesting, while this is a small study it does bring up some interesting questions. I thought the more religious you were the more likely you would be ready to accept death. I guess in my view I was looking at it as more of a primitive kind of reasoning. However, there were still people who told me they were ready to be with God, I guess they don't represent the majority. Having some of the conversations I had is what helped me come to my previous conclusion. I never looked to see if they had a DNR bracelet on, but the next time it happens I will check it out. This whole thing is pretty interesting, any thoughts? Could it be because the church kind of creates an intimate family setting that people don't want to leave? Then again there are people who are religious who do not go to church... I am baffled on this one lol. |
|
|
|
Post by firemancheesehead on Mar 18, 2009 12:36:41 GMT -5
Glad you posted that. As the saying goes, 'everyone wants to go to heaven, but no one is in a hurry to get there'.
You cannot read that report without a note of irony. The most religious demand the most agressive care? Interesting!
|
|
|
|
Post by firemancheesehead on Mar 18, 2009 12:43:47 GMT -5
Mag,
I was gonna quote your post, but that would take up a lot of space. The thing about the Bible and religion as a whole. If it were true, you would not need faith. The very fact that religion is based on faith, well, that should say it all right there.
It is very easy to see that Christianity was made from parts of various pagan religions and Judaism.
Simply look at the pagans and the ways the worshiped etc.
as an example...
The Egyptians had a 'hell' the god Socar was in charge....he looks and sounds just like the devil.
The story of Orpheus is nearly identical to the story of Lot, except for a few details at the end.
The right wing fundagelicals scream that the Bible and their god forbids homosexuality. Yet, they never seem to scream about the amount of incest or the amount of times fathers offer their 'virgin' daughters up to an unruly mob.
Hmmmm
|
|
|
|
Post by firemancheesehead on Mar 18, 2009 12:46:24 GMT -5
Check this out. A light hearted look at Sodom and Gomorrah!
|
|
|
|
Post by packerconvert on Mar 18, 2009 16:41:55 GMT -5
Hmm..my take on that is those who are more religious MAY find life more precious and seek to hold onto it versus those who think they are just a lump of meat walking around.
|
|
|
|
Post by firemancheesehead on Mar 19, 2009 8:21:30 GMT -5
Hmm..my take on that is those who are more religious MAY find life more precious and seek to hold onto it versus those who think they are just a lump of meat walking around. Conversely, i'd say to you that the religious panic at the end because there is nothing after death. They cannot come to grips with that. The fully have faith that they will go to heaven and enter paradise yet they want to stay here longer? That doesn't make sense. |
|
|
|
Post by TW on Mar 19, 2009 8:35:56 GMT -5
Fireman -
You're wrong on that one. People who really have faith do not think that near the end. They fully believe they are going to another place, not oblivion.
Over the years, I've found that those who are most vocal about their not being a God, or a life after death, are those who really fear there might be, and their actions will make their after-life a disaster.
I've laid in filth, and mud next to someone who professed to be an atheist, who said; "God! Let this end! Make them quit!," when mortar rounds were falling a couple of yards away from us, and he thought that at any moment, one would land in our little sanctuary of a hole, and kill us.
But fear not, God in his wisdom, will forgive those transgressions. God understands our frailty.
As for the guy in the trench? He never spoke of being an Atheist again. I know I never asked. I figure each of us has to come to grips with who we are, and do the best we can, with what we've got.
|
|
mag7ue
Practice Squad
Guru - Week #3 - 2008, #16 - 2009
Posts: 419
|
Post by mag7ue on Mar 19, 2009 9:26:55 GMT -5
Mag, I was gonna quote your post, but that would take up a lot of space. The thing about the Bible and religion as a whole. If it were true, you would not need faith. The very fact that religion is based on faith, well, that should say it all right there. Isn't it wonderful that God chose to give us free will? We can choose to accept what He's done for us, or we can choose to disbelieve. I'm not sure it could be true free will if the type of proof you want existed. I don't know why so many feel the need to condemn homosexuality over other sins. Everyone has their reasons, I guess, but it's pretty clear in the Bible that God sees all sin as equal - murder is the same as fornication is the same as being angry unecessarily is the same as imagining sex with the women you see on the internet. We in our society have set levels for morality, but to God, it doesn't matter - because any sin separates us from Him. Until we accept His forgiveness for our sin, it doesn't really matter how "bad" we've been. Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned and come short of God's glory"
Ephesians 2:8-9 "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast."
As far as the research you quoted, I guess that goes to show why "religion" doesn't matter. I personally hate the term. You can have all the religion in the world and not know Christ. You can go to church, do everything the church tells you to your whole life - it doesn't do you any good! Religion isn't the answer - that can only be found in the person of Jesus Christ. |
|
mag7ue
Practice Squad
Guru - Week #3 - 2008, #16 - 2009
Posts: 419
|
Post by mag7ue on Mar 19, 2009 9:29:51 GMT -5
And I'll ask one more time: any thoughts on my first post in this thread? They aren't trick questions - I posted them to honestly see what people think.
|
|
|
|
Post by firemancheesehead on Mar 19, 2009 11:32:14 GMT -5
I would say that as we have advanced in the areas of science and math, that people have realised that they don't need a mythical sky fairy who's paranoid about your bedroom antics, in charge of their lives.
They have noticed that despite the warnings of their parents and their church leaders, that not going to church is not a crime. They can live happy lives without worrying whether or not they are pleasing a diety.
And something amazing happened. Their lives continued their children were raised and cared for and became upstanding adults.
|
|
|
|
Post by firemancheesehead on Mar 19, 2009 11:42:24 GMT -5
Mag, I was gonna quote your post, but that would take up a lot of space. The thing about the Bible and religion as a whole. If it were true, you would not need faith. The very fact that religion is based on faith, well, that should say it all right there. Isn't it wonderful that God chose to give us free will? We can choose to accept what He's done for us, or we can choose to disbelieve. I'm not sure it could be true free will if the type of proof you want existed. I don't know why so many feel the need to condemn homosexuality over other sins. Everyone has their reasons, I guess, but it's pretty clear in the Bible that God sees all sin as equal - murder is the same as fornication is the same as being angry unecessarily is the same as imagining sex with the women you see on the internet. We in our society have set levels for morality, but to God, it doesn't matter - because any sin separates us from Him. Until we accept His forgiveness for our sin, it doesn't really matter how "bad" we've been. Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned and come short of God's glory"
Ephesians 2:8-9 "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast."
As far as the research you quoted, I guess that goes to show why "religion" doesn't matter. I personally hate the term. You can have all the religion in the world and not know Christ. You can go to church, do everything the church tells you to your whole life - it doesn't do you any good! Religion isn't the answer - that can only be found in the person of Jesus Christ. You are basing all this off of the bible. the only book that mentions Jesus. And, you are using the bible to prove the bible. What about Jesus as a young man? I don't recall 'Jesus: The Teenage Years' in the bible. Even you have to admit that the bible is chock full of errors. Going back to Paul and his gospel... I find this interesting also. BTW, I disagree with your take on that verse from Hebrews. To me, it clearly shows that Paul thought Jesus was always in Heaven-or somewhere close. But it's funny to me that Paul makes no metnion of Mary, Joseph, this ministry, entrance in to Jerusalem etc. but only writes of Jesus being put on the cross, the resurrection, and the assention. Something else I dfind interesting. The Bible can't even get the lineage of Jesus straight. How in the world can anyone take the book seriously? |
|
mag7ue
Practice Squad
Guru - Week #3 - 2008, #16 - 2009
Posts: 419
|
Post by mag7ue on Mar 19, 2009 17:39:55 GMT -5
Even you have to admit that the bible is chock full of errors. No, I don't. But I think we've been over that before, if not on this board, then on "the one that shall not be named." So now that this interested discussion has devolved back to that again, I doubt I have much more to say. Like I said, skeptics will always find something to be skeptical of. You've heard the truth, time and time again. What you do with it is between you and God. |
|
