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Post by packerconvert on Mar 19, 2009 18:33:26 GMT -5
The bible does have errors. You cannot say a group of men getting together to decide what is truth and what is not truth can not be wrought with errors.
Its like gathering the NBC news crew and haivng them put together a book of where Obama made no errors. It simply doesn't happen.
God, nor Christ expect sheep, they expect free thinkers. God expects to be questioned, hence why in Luke it states, "where two or more are gathered in my name, there in the midst am I"
God doesn't expect us to go to church nor follow the words of man to embrace him. He simply asks that his existence be questioned, ergo acknolwedged.
Pretty simple stuff. I have no clue why people get wrapped up and have their bowels constipated by words selected by humans..
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Post by thegreenmeanie on Mar 19, 2009 18:57:38 GMT -5
Because they use the "logic" that the people who wrote the bible were writing the word of God, and therefore can not be incorrect. Basically God took over these people during their writing process. Whether or not that is believed on a large scale basis I have had more than one person say it to me before. Hence why you can not really have a successful debate with a religious person. In the end it comes down to something you can't measure "fate" and scenarios like the one I just stated. Which to them will make perfect sense and to people like myself blow your mind. So that is why in the end it is just better to respect people's right to believe what they want. The only problem I have with religion is when it comes into power.
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Post by firemancheesehead on Mar 19, 2009 19:15:08 GMT -5
The bible does have errors. You cannot say a group of men getting together to decide what is truth and what is not truth can not be wrought with errors. Its like gathering the NBC news crew and haivng them put together a book of where Obama made no errors. It simply doesn't happen. God, nor Christ expect sheep, they expect free thinkers. God expects to be questioned, hence why in Luke it states, "where two or more are gathered in my name, there in the midst am I" God doesn't expect us to go to church nor follow the words of man to embrace him. He simply asks that his existence be questioned, ergo acknolwedged. Pretty simple stuff. I have no clue why people get wrapped up and have their bowels constipated by words selected by humans.. No, that is not true. God wants your unmittigated obedience. According to Deuteronomy 13: 6-10, non believers are to be killed. Or shuned like 2Corinthians 6 14-17 says. People get worked up, because they base their lives on the bible 100% infalible. |
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mag7ue
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Post by mag7ue on Mar 19, 2009 20:22:07 GMT -5
So that is why in the end it is just better to respect people's right to believe what they want. Sounds pretty sensible to me. FMC, do we really have to get into the difference between the Old and New Testaments AGAIN? |
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Post by packerconvert on Mar 19, 2009 22:10:53 GMT -5
Because they use the "logic" that the people who wrote the bible were writing the word of God, and therefore can not be incorrect. Basically God took over these people during their writing process. Whether or not that is believed on a large scale basis I have had more than one person say it to me before. Hence why you can not really have a successful debate with a religious person. In the end it comes down to something you can't measure "fate" and scenarios like the one I just stated. Which to them will make perfect sense and to people like myself blow your mind. So that is why in the end it is just better to respect people's right to believe what they want. The only problem I have with religion is when it comes into power. There were over 600 people involved in the process to write the bible. If you are "Christian" the new testament supercedes the old testament. |
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Post by thegreenmeanie on Mar 20, 2009 0:47:43 GMT -5
I understand, but from what I have gathered the 600 people were all writing with the power of God therefore making the bible the true word of God, and a fact. I am not arguing with you, I agree the book is full of errors, I am just saying an argument I come across when I have these discussions with religious people.
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Post by firemancheesehead on Mar 20, 2009 14:42:54 GMT -5
So that is why in the end it is just better to respect people's right to believe what they want. Sounds pretty sensible to me. FMC, do we really have to get into the difference between the Old and New Testaments AGAIN? Meh, I guess not, so long as you admit that the bible is a silly book  that cannot keep any of its' stories straight. OT and NT included...... |
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Post by firemancheesehead on Mar 20, 2009 14:44:20 GMT -5
I understand, but from what I have gathered the 600 people were all writing with the power of God therefore making the bible the true word of God, and a fact. I am not arguing with you, I agree the book is full of errors, I am just saying an argument I come across when I have these discussions with religious people. The problem is, that the fundies regard it as unfalible. When questioned, the normal response is... 'It's the word of God.' |
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mag7ue
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Post by mag7ue on Mar 20, 2009 19:37:43 GMT -5
The problem is, that the fundies regard it as unfalible. When questioned, the normal response is... 'It's the word of God.' Well....it is. Like I said in a previous post - without it being accepted as being completely true and without error, there really is no basis for the Christian faith. It's interesting how you say the "fundies" regard it as infallible. Were any of those people in the research about medical care and being scared of dying "fundies?" Or were they people who called themselves Christians, but only believe the parts of the Bible they want to? |
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Post by thegreenmeanie on Mar 20, 2009 20:21:00 GMT -5
I think many Christians do that. Or else how do you explain many Christian Republicans being for the death penalty? That isn't picking and choosing?
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mag7ue
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Post by mag7ue on Mar 21, 2009 3:58:57 GMT -5
I think many Christians do that. Or else how do you explain many Christian Republicans being for the death penalty? That isn't picking and choosing? I'm confused - picking and choosing in what way? Because all the Christian "fundies" (to use FMC's word) I know are in favor of the death penalty and believe that's what the Bible teaches. |
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Post by TW on Mar 21, 2009 6:36:26 GMT -5
Since the largest Christian Church in the world is the Catholic Church, and the Church, and most Catholics are opposed to capital punishment, I find the statement that being pro-death penalty and Christian at the same time to be a fundamental Christian is illogical.
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Post by firemancheesehead on Mar 21, 2009 7:25:45 GMT -5
The problem is, that the fundies regard it as unfalible. When questioned, the normal response is... 'It's the word of God.' Well....it is. Like I said in a previous post - without it being accepted as being completely true and without error, there really is no basis for the Christian faith. It's interesting how you say the "fundies" regard it as infallible. Were any of those people in the research about medical care and being scared of dying "fundies?" Or were they people who called themselves Christians, but only believe the parts of the Bible they want to? And thus, your religion (as all are ) is based on faith because there is no proof. Lets admit something here. You will never question your faith-the way it should be questioned. You will never ponder why the two accounts of the lineage of Jesus differ ( with very few names matching ). You will never question why your bible advocates incest and fratracide and yet you will gleefully announce that your gad hates fags, all the while turning a blind eye to the blatant homosexual affair David has. You will never think to question just how bassackwards the story of Jesus and Pilate is. How Romans never let any one go who was an insurrectionist. The Romans were just not fans of anyone who didn't see Rome as the be all , end all. You will never question why there are two different accounts of what Mary did after Jesus rose. Look. I think that all 'we' really want is for people to question 'why'. Mags, you will demand proof , with stats, about why Vikes fans say they will win every series with the Pack for the next 20 years. Yet, you will question without hesitation anything that the bible says. All I ask is that you cast a critical eye towards your religion. Every religion for that matter. It is OK not to believe. You may find your life improves because you are no longer paranoid about a mythical sky fairy who has nothing better to do that make sure that the only sex you have is with your wife and only in the missionary position-that being said, ever find it ironic that the majority of the sex fiends are fundies?? |
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Post by thegreenmeanie on Mar 21, 2009 7:32:11 GMT -5
Thats one example of picking and choosing. You have been beating that drum since this thread started that people who pick and choose are not being true, and I understand and agree with that. So since I believe it is safe to assume that the majority of "Christians" are republicans and many of them are pro death penalty is that not picking and choosing? Where do you stand on that issue? I am not even talking about fundamentalist, I am saying your average Joe included.
I don't believe Jesus would of killed anyone, or defended the action.
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mag7ue
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Post by mag7ue on Mar 21, 2009 10:31:28 GMT -5
Since the largest Christian Church in the world is the Catholic Church, and the Church, and most Catholics are opposed to capital punishment, I find the statement that being pro-death penalty and Christian at the same time to be a fundamental Christian is illogical. Well, I think we're approaching the definition of "Christian" differently, TW. Yes, the Catholic Church is considered a Christian entity - I don't argue that or have a problem with that. However, I'm not talking about being Christian, I'm talking about being A Christian - someone who has accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior, who trusts in His free gift for forgiveness of sins, that all we have to do is ask for it and it's ours, and that when they die will go to Heaven to live for eternity with Him. In other words, when I talk about being a Christian, I'm not talking about a religion, I'm talking about a personal belief and relationship with God. I'm not talking about my personal stance on the death penalty or my reasons for it - I simply mean that all the people I know that would fit the bill of the Christian "fundie" I think FMC is referring to do support the death penalty. |
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