Poor Worker Harder If Given Less?

[townhalleditor]

"Forgive me for noting that conservatives seem to believe that the rich will work harder if we give them more, and the poor will work harder if we give them less." EJ-Dionne

Opinions?

[TW]

That's an interesting statement.

If it was a true statement, the Soviet Union would have flourished from an industrial and agricultural stand point.

They failed because there was no reward for hard work, within the working classes.

[happypacker]

look at the twinkies employees,, they get laid off and the CEO and others get a 2 million dollars in a bonus> for what? ih ya, putting the business in the hole to the point they had to try to sell the thing. good work, riches! that is a real good trickle down effect. they get bonus, and the employees get to see the unemployment line.

[packerconvert]

Ummm, the employees chose to go on the unemployment line, the Twinkies CEO's did not.

[happypacker]

yes, they figured lets steal the money and giv eourselves a bonus, that is better than the unemployement line. I guess. but these people that
chose" to collect unemployement,, you mean instead of finding another job? ya, that is easy to do find another job right away. I guess the ones that are avaiable , if you work two of them that would add up to about 13 bucks an hour. rather do that then take money from a business thay had to sell because they could not run it properly, and they may even lose there 401 pension money. real kind of the Board, i wonder if they will lose anything? hummm, no, nothing just take a bonus.

[packerconvert]

Gosh, and just a couple of months ago, all these workers had full time jobs until?!?!?!?

That's right. They voted down the new contract and then they rejected the results of mediation (which involves a 3rd party neutral) to decide "fairness", still that wasn't good enough.

The employees gave their jobs away. Actually, they self-eliminated them.

So get over trying to demonize those who have to stay behind and do the mop up work; the bankruptcy judged approved the moves.

I do have to agree, with the changing attitudes of health versus junk foods, Hostess should have been a little more forward thinking and competitive by introducing things such as Flaxseed Filled Twinkies and Greek Yogurt Filled Ho Ho's.

[TW]

Interesting how you support the handful that would require the "masses" to grovel at their feet for a scrap of bread.

[packerconvert]

Interesting you would support those who would burn and loot their own neighborhood.

[TW]

I don't support law breakers or radicals on either end of the political spectrum.

I also refuse to accept the kid-gloves handling of white-collar criminals by the system, acting as if they are some kind of "mis-understood" person. They're crooks, plain and simple, and should do hard time.

[packerconvert]

Whew...thankfully we aren't having a discussion about criminals.


"Interesting you would support those who would burn and loot their own neighborhood."

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ALLEGORY

[TW]

I don't want to directly address the statement about those who loot their own neighborhoods, because you're referring to the poorest people in our nation. They have a lack of respect for law, because too many people have a lack of respect for them as people.

When there is no escape from a ghetto, you do what you can to survive, and find some joy, even if it means acting out.

I doubt very much you have a clue what it's like for those people. Your life has been in white society. You should have joined me for a few trips into the recesses of hell in Chicago, where these people feel they have no hope.

I think it would do everyone good to do a ride-along with Chicago, NY, Detroit, or any major inner city police force for a month. You might get your mind wrapped around reality.

[packerconvert]

Dec 2, 2012 18:33:21 GMT -5 packerconvert said:

Whew...thankfully we aren't having a discussion about criminals.


"Interesting you would support those who would burn and loot their own neighborhood."

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ALLEGORY

"Interesting you would support those who would burn and loot their own neighborhood."

Rhetorical Allegory is a demonstrative form of representation conveying meaning other than the words that are spoken

Hint: I'm not talking about actual burning and looting.

Subtext: I am referencing those who voted against having a job(burning the neighborhood) and then cry victimization after destroying their livelihoods (looting).

Sheesh.

[happypacker]

I have no clue on how much money you make, but i have seen this happen before, lets say that Twinkees are making 13 dollars an hour on ave, the company offered them a huge pay cut(without taking one themselves) to just over 8 dollars an hour. then they also said from your lower pay you must pay much more for your health care that put them earning aBOUT 7dollars an hour.
tell me , and try not to fib, but i know you will because it has not happened to you. I have seen it, would you take the cuts just to keep the job fo another year?
to top it off, as in the normal, if they take a cut, then the CEO and board get a bonus and some a raise. ya, I have seen it , my brother took the huge pay cut with a big company, payed more for there health care, and watched the busines move out of the country anyway, but not before they gave themselves millions in bonus money and the comapny moved the CEo to a better location outside of the USA. good work. now they have a real cheap work force , don't pay health care to the employees, and they also can ship there product into the USA, at a lower cost and increase there profit. Which in turn , did not go into the business as improvements, or expansion, but to the CEO as a raise and a bonus in shares to the board.

[TW]

PC - The problem is, the reality is actually in the poor neighborhoods of large metro areas, where peer pressure forces kids to join gangs, violate laws, pretty much drop out of school, or be non participants in education, even when forced to attend.

Why does this happen? When there's no hope, and no escape, for so many, they will drag the rest down to their own level. It's a pervasive mentality, based on what you actually know is happening around you.

We need to change that. If Republicans want to change that, they need to push for inner city education, and help these people rise up to their potential. If the right acknowledges their need to do it, and gets into it, they could end up being winners. Of course, that's not going to happen, because those at the very top, who are super wealthy, would rather spend a pittance of their income, and wealth, to convince others who are more fortunate than those in metro areas, that they are "above" those "wretches" who steal and loot their pockets in the form of taxes.

I keep telling people we have a choice. Educate people, help them rise up to their potential, find jobs through "America first polices" within the federal government, and watch what happens when we don't have to send millions to prison.

Things to think about. There's a reason minorities are more prominent in prisons. It's because when there is no hope, or future, stealing, and almost everything else, becomes acceptable. We pay for the lack of education and opportunity that people have through welfare and incarceration.

If you want to lessen the latter two, you need to address the first two, and create those jobs, and give people hope.

To put it bluntly, it's time to quit treating people as second class citizens in their own nation.

[packerconvert]

Dec 3, 2012 6:37:16 GMT -5 happypacker said:

I have no clue on how much money you make, but i have seen this happen before, lets say that Twinkees are making 13 dollars an hour on ave, the company offered them a huge pay cut(without taking one themselves) to just over 8 dollars an hour. then they also said from your lower pay you must pay much more for your health care that put them earning aBOUT 7dollars an hour.
tell me , and try not to fib, but i know you will because it has not happened to you. I have seen it, would you take the cuts just to keep the job fo another year?
to top it off, as in the normal, if they take a cut, then the CEO and board get a bonus and some a raise. ya, I have seen it , my brother took the huge pay cut with a big company, payed more for there health care, and watched the busines move out of the country anyway, but not before they gave themselves millions in bonus money and the comapny moved the CEo to a better location outside of the USA. good work. now they have a real cheap work force , don't pay health care to the employees, and they also can ship there product into the USA, at a lower cost and increase there profit. Which in turn , did not go into the business as improvements, or expansion, but to the CEO as a raise and a bonus in shares to the board.

We'll use your number. The company asked employees to take an 8 percent cut in wages. That would knock the $13.00 figure down to $11.96. Deduct another dollar an hour (per your equation) and that knocks it down to $10.96 and hour.

Taking a $4,160.00 hit annually would completely suck ass, but what are the alternative?

Though it would have sucked, I would have kept a steady income and health insurance etc.

Here's what the dimwits chose:

They voted to end their job, lose their benefits and collect $7.80 an hour off unemployment.

Amazing.