Poor Worker Harder If Given Less?

[TW]

In that same thread of thought PC, we should demand that people working in human services, such as retirement communities, be given wage cuts to about $10 an hour for the top jobs, and somewhere in the $8 an hour range for the rest. As for retirement, do like the rest. Save it, on your own. No retirement package.

Also, let's assume everyone working there will pick up 80% of their health package cost.

After all, it would pass a savings on to the consumers through lower charges, wouldn't it?

Of course, since I'm the one making the suggestion, give me a big bonus to show I'm a cool dude, and deserving of everything those poor people are losing.

[packerconvert]

Nature abhors a vacuum.

[happypacker]

you have failed to acknowledge that the company was going to sell even if they took the offer, so you work for peanuts for another month or even a year. then the same thing happens. oh, no if you wait for another year before they sell, then the COE will get a larger bonus check with the money that they make with the lower wages and having not pay as much for health benifits. You don't think they would put the money back into a business they are selling do you? and they won't give any to the very people they just stole the money from. so what a big problem they have with all the extra millions they just made by cutting the work forces throat. oh, ya, the bonus,, put it there.

[packerconvert]

Complete conjecture on your part.

Secondly, the purpose of business is to make money, not to make an employee feel good or give them a sense of worth.

Companies do not owe people jobs, if they did, then employees would be selling their homes to help a business cash-flow during hard financial times.

If you want to gripe and moan about the cheap labor overseas, talk to your local douche-bag Democratic legislator and tell her to enact trade agreements that put tariffs on those countries whose work environments are not commensurate with ours when it comes to safety on the job, workers rights etc. so that jobs can come back to America.

[TW]

You're absolutely right. The purpose is to make money, when it comes to business interests.

On the other hand, it's the responsibility of government to insure that business doesn't turn the people into slaves, and prosper in an atmosphere that is harmful to all the people.

It's also the right of the people to demand fair treatment, and if that means forming a union to take care of the fat arses who think they own us, then let there be unions.

Unions only develop when the business owners treat their employees like crap.

There's a reason that Johnson's Wax never had a union, and never will. It's a company that maintains that the dignity and respect of their employees is paramount in their operations.

So... don't give me this right wing bull crap about how business has rights, and nobody else has. That's the crap that Hitler & Mussolini pushed.

[happypacker]

They will close down the plant within the year anyway, even if they take the cuts, actually there are lots of 7.80 jobs out there, they were just trying to keep the 13 dollar an hour jobs, but when they realized the company would cut them down in some way, straight pay, of more money being payed in benifits, it make little sense to work for min, as you said and let them pass out bonus for doing a good job of cutting pay for the workers, it would take to much hard work and thought for the management to think up ways to increase profit by introducing and spending money from the profit for improvements/ or product. to increase sale and to make what they do produce less expensive through the new improvements in the plant. that take hard work and thought, brains, but just telling the business to lay off workers and cut there pay and benifits is an easy way to do it. pure greed. just for the top dogs, they care less about the business as long as they increase the profit fore the shareholders, they do little to improve the business itself. ans when all else of the "he, he, Brain trust" fails, sell the place give out a big bonus and move on and who cares about leaving hundreds or more to look for another place to work. re

[packerconvert]

Dec 4, 2012 20:26:40 GMT -5 TW said:

You're absolutely right. The purpose is to make money, when it comes to business interests.

On the other hand, it's the responsibility of government to insure that business doesn't turn the people into slaves, and prosper in an atmosphere that is harmful to all the people.

It's also the right of the people to demand fair treatment, and if that means forming a union to take care of the fat arses who think they own us, then let there be unions.

Unions only develop when the business owners treat their employees like crap.

There's a reason that Johnson's Wax never had a union, and never will. It's a company that maintains that the dignity and respect of their employees is paramount in their operations.

So... don't give me this right wing bull crap about how business has rights, and nobody else has. That's the crap that Hitler & Mussolini pushed.

No one is saying workers don't have rights. Of course they do and to set yourself upon a pedestal claiming this simple truth as if others are indifferent towards it is just weird.

Sometimes, businesses who exert their rights will conflict with the will and want of it's employees. Just because they do so doesn't mean they are stomping on employee rights.

Hostess flat out said what they needed to avoid bankruptcy. The Union thought they were bluffing and played a piss poor hand of Poker with employee livelihoods.

Whiners can point to mis-management and whatever else the hell they want, the fact is, they had the right to mis-manage all d**n day long and as long as employees are paid for the work they do, work in a safe environment and the employer abides by all State and Federal regulations.

You liberals make victims out of everyone and that is what is so tiresome about your party.

Grow a pair.

[happypacker]

how about paying them a fair wage for the work they do?
they call it a living wage.
why should an employee live in poverty doing the job for the owners who every year almost increase there pay when they are not doing to badly earning millions a year. and then having to legally hide million more in deffered payments, gifts, stock, bonus money airplanes. .
just because they can does not always mean it is best for the work force OR THE OWNERS. one reason they go bankrupt, they take the extra profit for themselves instead of investing in the business they make the profit from. talk about whinners, that is all thre wealthy do, bit-h because they have to pay a little higher tax or that the law was changed so that they canot pay nothing in taxes,oops, General Electric paid no tax last year. but there workers did and had to take pay cuts , pay more for health care, lose other type of benifits all together. i could go on and on about the GREEDY selFISH owners who have no clue or care to when they very own eployees, have a tough time paying the heating bill in a 1.200 sq ft home, while they own 20 cars and many homes.

[TW]

Apparently the word is out that the Hostess people were looking to reduce the salary so they could piece meal sell the operations, with a lower contract, to make more out of the sale, even though the intent of the purchasers would have been to close the bakeries themselves, and move the "name brand" into their own bakeries.

This is a common practice. Slim down operations by cutting overhead, then sell, as if the "new model" is sustainable.

[happypacker]

Dec 4, 2012 18:29:19 GMT -5 packerconvert said:

Complete conjecture on your part.

Secondly, the purpose of business is to make money, not to make an employee feel good or give them a sense of worth.

Companies do not owe people jobs, if they did, then employees would be selling their homes to help a business cash-flow during hard financial times.

If you want to gripe and moan about the cheap labor overseas, talk to your local douche-bag Democratic legislator and tell her to enact trade agreements that put tariffs on those countries whose work environments are not commensurate with ours when it comes to safety on the job, workers rights etc. so that jobs can come back to America.

[glow=red,2,300][/glow] when a company is making a profit before they go overseas, they are going there for one purpose, to make double the profit, and guess what that is fine , but they do it at the working person in Americas EXPENSE. they could have stayed here and made a profit, but the rich owners would rather let a better work force go here, for cheaper labor and no health benifits to make more money, the ONLY WAY THEY COULD DO THAT THE EASY WAY Is CLOSE THE AMERICAN PLANT AND MOVE OVERSEAS. then the buyers get cheaper porly mad eproduct at the same or higher cost. the money goes back as bennies not into the business,
the elected officals are all paid to do the wishes of the rich, and each party fights for the vote of the elected to bribe them to get what they want and where. it is not thew polictial government but the elected who are run by the rich.
and i may also add, i was in a Union, what we did and i traveled to a number of countries, was we would go there and try to get the workers to demand a better and fairer wage there, youn see once the get a living wage it may lower but not destroy the profit and it makes the company richer because now they the employee has more money to spend on the product and if each company was to do the same, raise pay then all the people would be able to having a living substaining wage and in turn spend more money for all the companies and thus there profit would go up the right way, not by doing the easy way and destroying families and making people wonder how to pay a bill they need to live off, and the people that did get ill and would not see a doc because they cannot afford one now can and then they miss less work ,the product is better made, and the monwey is spent back into the system, where it goes up the ladder for all to take a benifit from, your way the big take the money and nothing trickles down nothing, only the board and owner makes money money on the back bone the sweat and the hard work of its employees, you live in a dream

[townhalleditor]

I do not think a great deal of thought is being given to the idea that the world around us is heading towards globalization; borders are becoming less important.

Lord knows we've heard a great deal over the last 12 years about jobs being sent overseas to cheap labor countries such as India and China.

America has suffered because of this outflux of jobs, but IMO, if you are truly concerned for your fellow man, then the jobs needed to go overseas as a form of equalizing and bringing to light, the right and plight of workers overseas. Doing so, will also lessen the need for wars as dominance no longer rues the day: interdependence will.

If you look overseas now, the cost of production is going up in China and India: why? Because wages are going up, living standards are being raised, China and India are emerging as economic powers with billions of people who are now making money. Real money. And what will they spend that money on?

With the emergence of consumers in these countries and the raising of production cost, American companies are finding out that it is best from a logistics analysis to bring jobs home to America.

The by product of having jobs go overseas planted seeds of economic growth from which Americans workers can harvest manufacturing jobs and have buyers to purchase their products.

America has stumbled with its debt, budget deficits, re-tooling/training of American workers etc, but there is a bright future for all Americans if we get away from our nationalistic tendencies and understand it isn't about the East vs West anymore; hat is an outdated/outmoded paradigm in which some leaders still like to use to spread fear to press small minded ideology that only benefits a few.

[happypacker]

that si what the unions are trying to help with, they go to other countires to raise the wges to a living wage, and in doing so, the company still pulls in aprofit, but not as much for the board and CEO they are crooks, and then they realize that if wages go up there the y have a much better work forcr in the USA and that once paying for wages, shipping them thousands of miles back to the US is costing more than if they kept the business here to begin with, but still the laws are written so product coming into the US is still cheaper than If the US makes them here and for shipping the product made here to the other country, this country should do just what the others do, make there taxes level out the cost of the incoming products, put all on a fair cost. that way the best made product will be the top seller and allwill benifit not just the rich who go where the pay is cheapest, the skill level is minium, and the health care is non exsisting.

[happypacker]

just for a further update.
the hostess onwers have taken the employees pension and supposedly reinvested it into the coming it was going to file for and sell the business. the people now have years of hard work, gone.
so how would you like the law that enables business to give out a 401 K and later take it all away and use it for the CEO and board bonus, and cheat all the while knowing they are screwing the working person from there 401K (pension.
I wrote about this years ago, and i am still surprised people do not knwo that all Pensions are quarnteeed to recieve the same monthly pay as long as they live, but 401K can and have a by a good number of businesess taken the money and used it to keep the place running for a small amount of time and then hand out big bonus checks once they file for and get rid of the business, so if you work for 30 years and have a 401 k watch out you can and more than likely will lose it. thsnks riches, your always looking out for your self at the WORKING PERSONS EXPENSE. FACT

[TW]

I lost a "guaranteed pension" when the guy who owned the pension decided to build a gambling boat with another LLC. He "loaned" the money from our pension fund in one LLC to the other, then when the LLC for the boat went belly up, the money for our pensions left with it.

The problem is, there was nothing for us to recoup, because he had hidden every asset of value under various foreign scams that guaranteed him a very nice life, while everyone who had paid into the fund got the shaft.

If anyone wonders why I don't trust anyone who has their hands on the purse strings, this should pretty well cover it.

[happypacker]

trust me, i went through this, i think and what you wrote at the end" WHILE EVERYONE WHO PAID INTO THE FUND" it was not a pension, pensions are quarenteed by the federal governemnt even if the business goes broke, the busines has to pay the pension. any of the newer "epnsions" or 401 k and other similar FUNDS, they can raid them almost any way they want. THEY HAVE BEEN AROUND SINCE THE LATE 70,S AND MANY PEOPLE THOUGHT IT WAS A PENSION, THEY CALLED IT YOUR PENSION, BUT IT WAS NOT A TRUE PENSION THAT IS PROTECTED BY THE gOVENMENT, THEY HAVE TRIED TO CHANGE THAT LAW FOR DECAADES alll to fail so far. but they closer every year, and besides, once they change ownership they can change from the pension to a pension fund. not the same with no promises you will ever see it. that is business bonus money. i love it when these CEO get "fired " and recieve 8 million dollar servernce. you get fired and you lose it all. even your pension sometimes or fund