Dow Jones Industrial Average -- 9,885.80

[amoeba15]

It will be interesting to see how businesses and the country responds when the Dow reaches 10,000+.

money.cnn.com/data/markets/dow/

[TMWight]

I've been watching it for the past few months steadily rising.

When it comes down to it we have a job as Americans to spend money to see our economic growth. We should be going out right now and having a good time.

[TW]

I have to chuckle. Not because I think it's funny. Instead, because I don't understand why people believe the recession is over. More people are losing their jobs every day, and according to analysts, they aren't being replaced.

How can experts state, with a clear conscience, that the recession has ended, and we've bottomed out, based upon what they see on the stock market? By and large, Americans don't play the stock market game, and still don't have jobs.

Until people begin to realize that the stock market indicates what corporations are doing as a whole. It could care less if millions of Americans are out of work. All that matters is that the company is making money, and so are the wealthiest of stockholders.

As for the little guy, I don't think more new jobs that they're opening in India, The Philippines, or China, mean a damned thing to us.

[brewerbruce]

TW - I couldn't have said it better myself. You are spot on. They are predicting now that this 4th quarter will show that the unemployment rate will top 10% and as TW stated, a lot of these jobs will not be brought back due to the jobs continually going over to China, Viet Nam, Poland, India, Phillippines, Mexico, etc.

[gopackgo2000]

Oct 13, 2009 10:07:57 GMT -5 @brewerbruce said:

TW - I couldn't have said it better myself. You are spot on. They are predicting now that this 4th quarter will show that the unemployment rate will top 10% and as TW stated, a lot of these jobs will not be brought back due to the jobs continually going over to China, Viet Nam, Poland, India, Phillippines, Mexico, etc.

Make it 3 that are in agreement. The recession is not even close to being over. It is true that emplyment is usually the last thing to recover froma recession, but we are hemoraging jobs!

I recently found an article from Oct ober 9th, 1982. It's headline was that Unemployment was at 10% but the market was showing signs of recovery. Some would say that it is an example of how history would repeat itself. I say, we should look at our current situation as an opportunity to learn from history on how we do recover from this. Instead this administration is doing the exact opposite of what we did back in the early 80's. I fear we will have the opposite results as well!!!!

[gopackgo2000]

BTW, the S&P 500 companies are showing big profits per share and that is why the Dow is going up, but you have to ask yourself why and how are they showing these profits? They are cutting tons of expenses...i.e. JOBS!!! Cutting expenses is the quickest easiest way to show a better bottom line! It only lasts so long though before there are aren't enough people with money to buy the products and services. It will end. We are seing the up side of the middle of the "W" the market is probably going to follow. Now is a good time to cut losses in my opinion. as we go further in debt as a nation and devalue our currency the market will plummet right behind all of that!!!

[amoeba15]

I found this interesting article that was written in 2000.

Twisted Economic Logic

Last week’s headlines all carried a variant of "Economy Loses Jobs, Stock Market Soars." Is the Marxist parable of capitalist exploitation coming true? Are corporations and their investors really cheering that 116,000 private-sector workers were told to walk in May?

To an outsider who knew nothing about the way the Fed distorts both the economy and investors’ perceptions of the future, it might seem so. In reality, the Fed, in its Keynesian-style management of the money supply, has a knack for making the economy work exactly as the opponents of free markets say it does.

The reason stocks went up had nothing to do with job losses as such. A few weeks ago, the wisdom on the street was that Alan Greenspan was planning to increase interest rates further in order to combat inflation. In turn, inflation was considered a threat because the economy was growing "too fast," and this is supposed to kick off price increases. Job losses signal a slowing economy, which signals the Fed that it doesn’t need to raise interest rates. That in turn suggests that there will be no more Fed-driven attempts to crack down on inflated market valuations.

This Rube Goldberg rationale is fatally flawed in many ways. Problem one: the Fed doesn’t combat inflation; its loose policies and nothing else are the source of inflation. Raising interest rates is merely an attempt to avoid the consequences of a previously profligate monetary policy. Problem two: economic growth doesn’t cause inflation; if anything, it produces downward pressure on prices. Keynesians like to claim that this is only true if the growth is a result of increased aggregate supply, and not aggregate demand. Problem three: there’s no such identifiable thing as aggregate demand or supply, so it’s impossible to know which is what.

Stranger still is the probable source of the job losses in this particular case. In May, the Census Department hired hundreds of thousands of people to help in collecting Census data, and they hired them at $8 to $18 per hour. If you count all these people in the job loss/job gain ratio, you end up with an increase of overall jobs of 231,000 (compared with the 110,000 losses that hit the private sector). It is entirely possible that these Census workers left lower paying private-sector jobs to go to work for the government at higher pay (yet another crime of the Census!). But if they hadn’t been working for the Census, they would have stayed employed in real jobs. There’s no question that the job losses hit the lower end of the pay scale the hardest.

Not that there’s any stability to the statistics themselves. At the same time the Labor Department announced job losses, it released revisions in previous months’ data, most of them in an upward direction. How can we know May’s data won’t be revised? This data comes from surveys of business, so it is sometimes useful to cross-check with a survey of households. However, this survey for May was so wildly implausible (showing the largest one-month job loss since 1948) that the Labor Department statisticians immediately dismissed it as a quirk having to do with seasonal adjustments.

If that’s not confusing enough, here’s an additional irony. Greenspan’s increases in interest rates were only partly motivated by the desire to dampen the prospect of rising prices in the future. As he has said many times, he thinks that the stock market is overvaluing the worth of many companies. He would like to use his power over interest rates to put a damper on irrational exuberance. But with a slower economy leading investors to believe rates won’t increase again, the stock market is soaring again, making possible new spending which will be reflected in growth rates. In other words, the mere perception that the economy is slowing may cause it to grow even faster.

There’s some evidence that Greenspan understands this. It is widely noted, for example, that Greenspan has made no reference to slower growth rates in his recent speeches. He may understand that the slightest mention of this will cause the stock market to soar on the expectation that he believes Fed intervention is no longer necessary. A soaring stock market is what he wants to avoid.

Regardless of the underlying rationale, the job loss/stock market dynamic we are witnessing is not something endemic to the market economy. It is a drama scripted by the Federal Reserve, an agency of the government that stands as far outside the real economy as any regulator does. It just so happens that when you regulate the money supply, your actions have a broader impact than the guy at the FDA in charge of regulating the operation of bologna slicers.

What’s striking is how everyone takes it for granted that the Fed should have so much power. Even when it does nothing at all, traders are left to speculate what it may or may not do in the future, and when events cause those speculations to change, investor psychology can take a dramatic turn. The result is a wholly unnecessary volatility stemming from artificial uncertainty, an inevitable consequence of the discretionary monetary policy administered under the dictatorship of Alan Greenspan.

All this psycho-statistical gameplaying underscores a few central lessons, and it doesn’t take a degree in economics to understand them. It is clear that the economy is far too complicated, and the data collectors of the federal government far too dim-witted, to make central planning viable on any scale at all. If the government can’t tell us with any certainty whether the economy is growing or shrinking, or whether there are more or fewer jobs than in previous months, there is no hope it can manage the macroeconomy. The attempt only generates confusion.

And yet what is the Federal Reserve other than a glorified central planning agency? It fixes the price of credit, it doles out money in dribs and drabs to sectors it likes, it tries to steer the value of the dollar on international exchange, and it targets the stock market for increases and declines. It has been spectacularly unsuccessful in every instance. Greenspan’s convoluted speeches, and his white marble palace, can’t mask the fact that he and the Fed create nothing but uncertainty and confusion for the market.

In a just and sane world, traders on Wall Street would be thinking about balance sheets and consumer preferences, not guessing at what factors will influence the next decree of Greenspan the Great. But so long as the Fed hangs on to its unwarranted power as the nation’s money manager, they will have to continue to guess what it is going to do next.

June 6, 2000

www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/twisted.html

[TW]

Interesting points, double talk, and a non-comparative cycle, since we aren't taking a census in 2009. Of course the Administration will play it up in 2010 that things are great because they put all those people to work. But, when the smoke clears, and those jobs are gone, those people will still be unemployed.

I simply know that the stock market and the real state of affairs for Americans as far as jobs doesn't necessarily correlate directly, because bean counters have a tendency to use theory instead of reality to come up with solutions that make their political position plausible.

When 10% or more of the people are out of work, I don't care how high the stock market is. If anything, it signals to me that I should be pushing government to enact import taxes, and levy taxes against such operations as foreign phone centers, like is being set up constantly for interaction with American consumers, in places like India, etc.

[amoeba15]

TW,

I understand and respect what you are saying because of course, you make sense.

I am mostly trying to find something positive in the worst economic times that I have ever witnessed. Currently, people are experiencing such incredible hardships and uncertainties that it is easy to believe that things will NEVER get better. Although I DO NOT believe in sugar coating things, I am trying to find ways/stats that would lift peoples spirits and provide a little hope for a brighter future.

Establishing a foundation of hope, confidence, sacrifice and working together will help us to accomplish our goals in a more timely fashion.

Obama and the Democrat controlled Congress have much work to do, need to stop blaming Bush and attacking one another and need to make the necessary compromises so that Americans are being properly served. The same applies to Republicans who repeatedly put their personal vendetta's ahead of doing the will of the people. Americans are freakin hurting and are sick and tired of the constant finger pointing by Members of Congress.

Tis a shame when the power and egos that Members of Congress thrive on, are more important that helping Americans make ends meet.

[gopackgo2000]

Oct 13, 2009 22:00:51 GMT -5 @amoeba15 said:

TW,

I understand and respect what you are saying because of course, you make sense.

I am mostly trying to find something positive in the worst economic times that I have ever witnessed. Currently, people are experiencing such incredible hardships and uncertainties that it is easy to believe that things will NEVER get better. Although I DO NOT believe in sugar coating things, I am trying to find ways/stats that would lift peoples spirits and provide a little hope for a brighter future.

Establishing a foundation of hope, confidence, sacrifice and working together will help us to accomplish our goals in a more timely fashion.

Obama and the Democrat controlled Congress have much work to do, need to stop blaming Bush and attacking one another and need to make the necessary compromises so that Americans are being properly served. The same applies to Republicans who repeatedly put their personal vendetta's ahead of doing the will of the people. Americans are freakin hurting and are sick and tired of the constant finger pointing by Members of Congress.

Tis a shame when the power and egos that Members of Congress thrive on, are more important that helping Americans make ends meet.

AMEN 100% agree and the important thing you are pointing out is that it is not a democrat thing or a Republican thing. We have a coruption problem throughout both parties and until that is fixed the egos and power will always come before the people. THat is unless the people wake up and vote out of office all of those (reguardless of party) that do not act in America's best interest!!! The problems we are facing today and a culmination of countless corupt bureaucrats from both sides constantly relying on the un educated dumb public to buy their lines of BS every election. Well the problem now is that people are begining to realize both sides have few good politicians in their party. People are asking the tough questions and the corupt think if they ignore us and go against us we will just go away. I think they got another thing coming! This is not about parties anymore for so many people! They can't count on the public not doing their homework anymore! We want true Representatives of us the people they work for! Represent us not special interests!!! It ends now or you're fired congress...man/woman!

I can tell you that historically I have called myself a Republican, but if someone runs as a Democrat but really believes in smaller government and reducing the scope of government I will vote for them! I don't care about lables anymore...I care about character and honesty and intergrity!!!

[amoeba15]

The Dow closes at 10,015.86.



I salute the Dow's numbers, not on behalf of big corporate profits, but rather in the hope that the numbers are a positive sign for an improving economy.

[TW]

According to my wife, the company she works with cut roughly 1,100 jobs this past week, and hired 600 in the Philippines. How does she know? She's been interviewing new prospective employees by phone, and handling outgoing counseling with those who are being sent packing. She gets the honor of spending all of her time - starting next week - doing outbound job searches and matches for people.

It's really bothering her. She's seeing people that she knows are going to end up on the welfare roles because of the downturn, and if anyone has been listening to the right lately, they really think all those people are a "wart" on society.

Maybe it's time for some of them to feel the pain.

We noticed their stock value went up considerably over the last ten days.

I wonder if that tells anyone something about what often happens in the market?

[amoeba15]

Sorry to hear this unfortunate and very sad news.

We, as Americans and as a country must do everything in our power to keep jobs in the USA. Negotiating with management, contacting the media and US reps, boycotting the companies by not doing business with them and basically, doing whatever it takes to help US companies listen to reason.

Several unions and companies throughout the US are saving thousands of jobs by eliminating pay raises, lowering salaries between 1-5 percent, eliminating and/or altering employee benefits so that there are less costs to the employer.

In fact, President Obama on Wednesday attempted to preempt the announcement that Social Security recipients will not get an increase in their benefit checks for the first time in three decades, encouraging Congress to provide a one-time payment of $250 to help seniors and disabled Americans weather the recession.

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/14/AR2009101403954.html

Times are bad and I am hoping for anything that will lift the spirits of Americans. Hopefully, when everything is said and done, Americans will remember and understand these very difficult times and will get more involved by insisting that our leaders serve the will of the people and make good on their promises.

[TW]

It's amazing how they'll hand billions of dollars to banks and corporations who caused this problem, and tell those who've worked their whole lives for the pittance of SS they get that they aren't part of the equation of the future.

The stimulus packages are a joke, and have been since the beginning. As far as retired persons, it's an even bigger joke.

As far as "cost of living going down," I don't know where in hell they got that from. The cost of living for retired people has continued to sprial up, out of control.

"IF" the government really believed the cost of living wasn't going up, please explain why we're going to pay more for Medicare, gap insurance, and med insurance, in 2010?

Also, please explain why we'll be paying more for food over the next year?

Oil prices went down, but how much of that decrease has been really passed on to consumers? Not too damned much of it. Most of that decrease has lined someone else's pocket.

Yeah... things are really getting better! The stock market is up.

[amoeba15]

Inflation and the Rising Cost of Living

The price of gas is going up again, which will hurt everyone across the board. All this spending like drunken sailors over the past 12-14 months is going to come back and kill off what's left of the middle class and drive lower-income families into abject poverty. During the "Great Depression," farming was the one sector that kept America fed, but that is not the case today.

Once again, Congress continues to destroy family-owned farms by refusing parity so they can compete in the open market. If you read one book on this issue, read The Fed and The Farmer. That book is available for free on the Internet. Just type the title; my column will pop up. The link to the book is in the column. What's being done to our farmers and land owners is a national tragedy and yet, Americans continue voting the same politicians back to the U.S. Congress.

What about savings to help Americans as they lose their jobs? 34 Percent of U.S. workers have one week or less of savings. One paycheck from disaster. Even those who are working hard, husband and wife or just single folks can't find a nickel to save because we are being driven into poverty by more and more taxes. As the states continue to slide into bankruptcy, state legislatures and local municipalities are passing new taxes for everything including the air you breathe in an effort to stave off collapse. An ugly picture. The reality is just now sinking in and that's one of the reasons for the tea parties.

What I've covered in this article is just the tip of the iceberg. Adding injury to insult as Americans lose their jobs faster than can be counted, Congress continues to flood our job market with foreign workers. Type this into a search engine: '125,000 brand new foreign workers with work permits each month — Here's the proof' by Roy Beck (Numbers USA organization) While Americans stand in unemployment lines desperate for work, Congress makes sure they don't get the jobs. They go to foreigners instead.

What can be done? The states of the Union must pass what is called an honest money bill; see banner on my web site for Committees of Safety. If your state doesn't adopt a parallel money system to pay the bills, the collapse will be beyond anything in your worst nightmares. Washington, DC., is a wasteland of corruption that is going down under its own weight of rot.

A nation cannot spend itself out of debt by incurring TRILLIONS more in paper debt. Inflation is going to hit and your "dollar" will be worth nothing. I don't write this to scare readers, but to get your attention. History is repeating itself and it's going to accelerate by the second quarter of 2010.

Prepare yourself and your family for very hard times ahead. My columns focus on constitutional solutions that should have been implemented decades ago. I hope you will find time to read or listen to them (in the audio section) by going to my web site: www.devvy.com.

Writing for a newspaper is a little more challenging than for the Internet. Therefore, I have used footnotes for my references. Below they are listed exactly as the captions are so you can simply type them into a search engine and bring them up.

[1] Great Myths of the Great Depression by Lawrence W. Reed
[2] The Hell with Bipartisanship/Newswithviews
[3] WSJ: Broader Unemployment Rate Hits 16.8% in August (September 4, 2009)
[4] Why an income tax is not necessary to fund the U.S. government
[5] The Coming FDIC Bail Out
[6] Raft of deals for failed banks puts U.S. on hook for billions
[7] 1,000 Banks to Fail In Next Two Years: Bank CEO
[8] The $531 Trillion Dollar Derivatives Time Bomb
[9] Treasury Document Called AIG Investment ‘Highly Speculative’
[10] Credit Card Delinquency Wave Reaching Tidal Force

-- Devvy Kidd

BIO -- Devvy Kidd authored the booklets, Why A Bankrupt America and Blind Loyalty; 2 million copies sold. Devvy appears on radio shows all over the country and is a highly sought after public speaker.

She left the Republican Party in 1996 and has been an independent voter ever since. Devvy isn't left, right or in the middle; she is a constitutionalist who believes in the supreme law of the land, not a political party. Her web site contains a tremendous amount of information, solutions and a vast Reading Room.

www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-337777