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Post by TMWight on Sept 21, 2009 21:15:06 GMT -5
Real quick... The cow farts argument is stupid in climate change because the reason there are so many cows is the mass production of them for the meat industry which is run by... ding ding ding... HUMANS! Still on us boys and girls. To go off of what TMWight said, it seems like nobody even knows what socialism is in this country. They are all just repeating the bs they hear of fox news. I find it disturbing that people do not what to help their fellow Americans be insured and live healthy lives. TW is 100% correct on this me first attitude. TMWight and I have a friend who is pretty out there right, and he actually told us that he doesn't think its a right for people to have health care. I find that really upsetting. It should be a right, not a privileged. We live in a society where people's guns are more important to them than their fellow Americans. Disgusting... It's just tmwight guy.... |
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Post by amoeba15 on Sept 21, 2009 21:41:19 GMT -5
Fireman, nice list.  Tis good seeing PC running in circles in an attempt to defend the indefensible.  |
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Post by packerconvert on Sept 21, 2009 22:08:45 GMT -5
I think it is all fine and dandy to run around and preach about how it is important to be responsible for our fellow man.
My question is...when do you we start teaching people to be responsible for themselves?
Whats the saying, give a man a fish, he eats for day. Teach a man how to fish and he eats a lifetime?
You talk about a "me first" attitude. Someone who is truly a "me first" person doesn't need anyone else to help them, so that leaves the "me first" people referenced in this thread as those who look to others to help them because they can't take care of themselves.
This world survived long before healthcare or insurance ever came along. The difference today versus yesterday is family always took care of their own.
Supplementing the government for family is the road that this nation continues onward and that is where the "me first" atttitude has damaged this nation mortally.
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Post by amoeba15 on Sept 21, 2009 22:26:54 GMT -5
"I think it is all fine and dandy to run around and preach about how it is important to be responsible for our fellow man. My question is...when do you we start teaching people to be responsible for themselves? Whats the saying, give a man a fish, he eats for day. Teach a man how to fish and he eats a lifetime?" Does this apply to those at Halliburton who ripped off taxpayers? According to MSN Money, Halliburton’s KBR, Inc. division bilked government agencies to the tune of $17.2 billion in Iraq war-related revenue from 2003-2006 alone. This is estimated to comprise a whopping one-fifth of KBR’s total revenue for the 2006 fiscal year. www.businesspundit.com/the-25-most-vicious-iraq-war-profiteers/ |
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Post by gopackgo2000 on Sept 22, 2009 12:29:16 GMT -5
Real quick... The cow farts argument is stupid in climate change because the reason there are so many cows is the mass production of them for the meat industry which is run by... ding ding ding... HUMANS! Still on us boys and girls. To go off of what TMWight said, it seems like nobody even knows what socialism is in this country. They are all just repeating the bs they hear of fox news. I find it disturbing that people do not what to help their fellow Americans be insured and live healthy lives. TW is 100% correct on this me first attitude. TMWight and I have a friend who is pretty out there right, and he actually told us that he doesn't think its a right for people to have health care. I find that really upsetting. It should be a right, not a privileged. We live in a society where people's guns are more important to them than their fellow Americans. Disgusting... You knwo it really comes down to this: Should social programs be run and funded by the government, or should we let and encouarge the citizens to create their own social groups and programs. I would rather we "We the People" get the chance to run this thing as opposed to the powerful few. If you look at socialism as a means to help people then it is hard to be against, but when it works best is when it is voluntary and not mandated by government programs. I for one wouldlove to see more people get the care they need. There are so many ways to do that, but this government does not want to have a debate about that. They just push their option that will give them more money, control and power. Socialism works best inside of Capitalism on a voluntary basis! We are a nation of good giving people! Give us a chance to keep our money and help those around us! |
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Post by TW on Sept 22, 2009 13:07:34 GMT -5
History has proved that people aren't good and caring people, and they don't share nearly as much as some people would like to believe they do.
Greed has been a governing factor for way too many people.
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Post by TMWight on Sept 22, 2009 14:50:20 GMT -5
You knwo it really comes down to this: Should social programs be run and funded by the government, or should we let and encouarge the citizens to create their own social groups and programs. I would rather we "We the People" get the chance to run this thing as opposed to the powerful few. If you look at socialism as a means to help people then it is hard to be against, but when it works best is when it is voluntary and not mandated by government programs. I for one wouldlove to see more people get the care they need. There are so many ways to do that, but this government does not want to have a debate about that. They just push their option that will give them more money, control and power. Socialism works best inside of Capitalism on a voluntary basis! We are a nation of good giving people! Give us a chance to keep our money and help those around us! Better start training people now how to lay hose down for a fire, provide emergency medial, or provide police service to it's citizens but make sure you tell the people that they need them to VOLUNTEER and if they want new equiment they have to hold fund-raisers and boot-drives. Everyday in America more and more volunteer fire departments are closing their doors because they can't get funding from their local residents. The problem would only get worse when companies like Wackenhut decides to got to your city-council or township with a contract to provide shotty fire protection, medical care, and police service. It will only get worse then it is now. If we're a nation of "good" people then why do we always see videos of eldery people getting beat up and bystanders just walking by? If we're "good" people why do we prentend we can't see the homeless people on our streets? If we're "good" people why do we turn a blind eye to the hunger issue we face in our own country? Why do we let these things happen? Because Amercians aren't as good as we'd like to think we are. |
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Post by TW on Sept 22, 2009 15:08:04 GMT -5
I always shake my head and wonder why we talk about how good we are, and how bad they are in foreign countries, but I have seen the opposite in my travels in Europe.
I've seen the differences, and we are self-centered and egotistical people who think we're better than everyone else, and in reality, we don't measure up to them when it comes to how we treat each other.
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Post by thegreenmeanie on Sept 22, 2009 15:39:22 GMT -5
You knwo it really comes down to this: Should social programs be run and funded by the government, or should we let and encouarge the citizens to create their own social groups and programs. I would rather we "We the People" get the chance to run this thing as opposed to the powerful few. If you look at socialism as a means to help people then it is hard to be against, but when it works best is when it is voluntary and not mandated by government programs. I for one wouldlove to see more people get the care they need. There are so many ways to do that, but this government does not want to have a debate about that. They just push their option that will give them more money, control and power. Socialism works best inside of Capitalism on a voluntary basis! We are a nation of good giving people! Give us a chance to keep our money and help those around us! Better start training people now how to lay hose down for a fire, provide emergency medial, or provide police service to it's citizens but make sure you tell the people that they need them to VOLUNTEER and if they want new equiment they have to hold fund-raisers and boot-drives. Everyday in America more and more volunteer fire departments are closing their doors because they can't get funding from their local residents. The problem would only get worse when companies like Wackenhut decides to got to your city-council or township with a contract to provide shotty fire protection, medical care, and police service. It will only get worse then it is now. If we're a nation of "good" people then why do we always see videos of eldery people getting beat up and bystanders just walking by? If we're "good" people why do we prentend we can't see the homeless people on our streets? If we're "good" people why do we turn a blind eye to the hunger issue we face in our own country? Why do we let these things happen? Because Amercians aren't as good as we'd like to think we are. exactly. Not to mention no offense to you, but the people in this country don't even know what socialism is. If what Obama wants to do was socialist then the Gov would own the Hospitals, own all the insurance companies, and all the doctors would work for the Gov. The closest to that is Britain. That is not what he has been saying at all, therefore Gov regulation of universal health care does not equal socialism. If you don't agree with what he wants to do that is fine, but it is not socialism. |
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Post by thegreenmeanie on Sept 22, 2009 15:42:00 GMT -5
I always shake my head and wonder why we talk about how good we are, and how bad they are in foreign countries, but I have seen the opposite in my travels in Europe. I've seen the differences, and we are self-centered and egotistical people who think we're better than everyone else, and in reality, we don't measure up to them when it comes to how we treat each other. Not to mention we don't know a d**n thing about the rest of the world. We operate off of stereotypes and whatever the T.V. tells us. It's pathetic. |
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Post by thegreenmeanie on Sept 22, 2009 16:58:15 GMT -5
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Post by 50poundhead on Sept 23, 2009 15:27:40 GMT -5
gopackgo, read some Thomas Hobbes sometime. I don't go as far as Hobbes, but without some sort of central government, life becomes "all against all." Volunteerism is high on the warm fuzzies, but low on consistent results.
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Post by TW on Sept 23, 2009 16:09:06 GMT -5
Leviathan is available online through Gutenberg. Here's the link to anyone who wants to read, and understand the social contract, and politics. Interestingly enough it was over 350 years ago when Hobbes wrote this work. www.gutenberg.org/etext/3207It can be read online, downloaded, or even printed if you desire. |
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Post by packerconvert on Sept 25, 2009 11:05:57 GMT -5
History has proved that people aren't good and caring people, and they don't share nearly as much as some people would like to believe they do. Greed has been a governing factor for way too many people. So you support social engineering programs by your government to encourage certain behaviors? What behaviors would you like to see social engineered? What criterion would you like to see our government use to steer behavior? When would social engineering not be appropriate and who would decide if a collective behavior should be re-directed? |
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Post by TW on Sept 25, 2009 11:10:04 GMT -5
I believe you spank children when they are naughty, and people should understand that they have a moral/legal obligation to be part of a social contract with others that guarantees them equal opportunity, and rights. If that's wrong, I'm guilty!  |
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