Fire TT and MM!!!!!

[Deleted]

Ok, maybe not!

I hope this is a wakeup call and lights a fire under these guys. Listening to several of them talk during the bye week they were starting to believe no one could touch them. I had a hard time understanding that mentality when they haven't really blown anyone out. Perhaps, this is just what this team needed?

[TW]

We were destroyed. It was sad watching what should be a good team fail to identify the problems they had on defense after Rivers unloaded for 500 yards. It was even worse, watching our offensive line get manhandled like a bunch of 120# weaklings. Then it was at it's worst, watching the coaches, clueless on the sidelines, as to what to do to stop the bleeding.

[Deleted]

The one thing that does need to change in my opinion is Capers has to go as D Coordinator. Same story every year.

[happypacker]

they need to light a fire under the players, acting like MM on the sideline cannot help a player on the field, it is so much more intense. the coaches are more to fault than the players. capers is worn out. replace him after watching other teams defensive coaches do well with less or same. steal a top tier defensive head coach. try at least. when playing poorly, at least play all that is suited up that could make a possible jump start or difference. back up linemen not really, but the other rbs, the other receivers, the other DE. work them in TRY!!

[TW]

I'm sure tired of watching Palmer (#51) not having a clue on what to do on the field.

[tnpackfan7]

Nov 3, 2015 14:38:38 GMT -5 TW said:

I'm sure tired of watching Palmer (#51) not having a clue on what to do on the field.

Agree there...we can say fire Capers...but not sure what all he could have done after how things went in that game.

Palmer is lost...then you drop 2 corners and have Hayward forced to play outside, and other guys on the field that can't cover.

Firing Capers will not make Palmer a starting MLB.
Firing Capers will not make Hayward able to be an outside cover corner.
Firing Capers will not improve tackling.

A Capers scheme needs 2 things...or at least one of two.
Pressure the QB.
Force turnovers.

There was zero pressure on the QB...and they did not get a turnover til late in the game.

[happypacker]

Palmer must be friends with somebody . He never played well as far as i can remember. Hyde, Hayward are solid backups, Hayward is not able to cover the number two. I hope shields can come back I also wish that Rollins is not out long. he is getting better, but still, look at the dbs. none are a player fir for todays game to cover the bigger faster receivers. when will they take a good look at a 6'2 " 200 lb. 4.4 player as a DB? Does Capers have any say as to which players make the team on defense?

[TW]

I know the real story as to why Palmer, and the others are playing, while Hawk was cut. It was money, and making someone a scapegoat for the poorly designed play of the defense. You can offer all the comments you want on it, but I knew what was happening. when it was happening, and why it was happening.

Capers needed a scapegoat for his inept game strategy, and Hawk took the hit. Not even Peppers nor Matthews are capable of doing what they wanted Hawk to do.

They wanted Hawk to play two gaps against the run, and handle essentially all short passing routes towards the middle (under 7 yards), and at the same time, cover from sideline to sideline, to protect against outside runs, because Matthews and Peppers were blitzing so often. You can see it, and call it, anyway you want, but I saw it and stated that a year ago

Now, let's put Hawk in there instead of Palmer, and I'd bet Rivers don't get anywhere near the 500 yards, and we don't get burned as much on Palmer's lack of coverage, and inability to plug holes.

[Deleted]

I've seen enough of Caper's run defenses to form the opinion we are going to struggle to beat quality teams on the road. It's the same story every year and yes, I think he should be held accountable for poor tackling, lack of pressure on the QB and inability to cover.

[TW]

The Capers defense always presents a glaring weakness because they don't have the right personnel to make it work. No matter how good guys like Peppers & Matthews are, it doesn't matter, because you can't find two guys big enough to stuff runs and play sideline to sideline, as well as handle @$s in pass coverage, in the middle. Even Matthews and Peppers struggle inside because of the schemes.

You're right. He is the one responsible for it, and I don't think it would matter if he had three Pro Bowl rush linemen on the team anyway. It just ain't happening with the schemes they use.

You want it to work, you need a hybrid CB/Safety/Linebacker who has all the tools to do some free lance work, then keep the outside guys at home, and essentially offer up a 4 man front and slide one off, and shift the defense to force changes in blocking assignments.

[tnpackfan7]

Back on the Hawk thing...seriously...he was ok, but not that good and could not cover a TE to save his life either.

They miss him calling things out the middle (though, Matthews can handle that too)...but he simply is not as good as you keep making him out to be at this point in his career.

[TW]

The Hawk thing? I think he was and is a helluva lot better linebacker than all the stiffs they've paraded out there over the years, outside of Matthews & Peppers. If you couldn't see that, that would be your problem, not mine.

But, you don't have to go any further than looking at the box scores of games and see how the Packers have suffered inside against the short pass, and run game. When they crash either Matthews or Peppers down, inside, the opposition changes up and goes outside, because guys like Palmer can't adjust to cover the edge. That's where Hawk was valuable. He did cover the edge when asked, and he turned plays to the inside, where there was supposed to be help, but usually wasn't because nobody stepped up to cover the center to tackle lane. Bishop sucked at it, so does Palmer, and everyone else they parade out there. It's a pure cluster.

[tnpackfan7]

Over the years, yes, and I agree with you there.
Is he the answer right now? No, I don't think that at all.

Hawk was not good against the pass...they sucked against TEs in the middle of the field when he was in GB too.

[TW]

I agree on that. Hawk is not the answer. The answer centers more around the schemes themselves. The issue was that Capers continued to push the issue that Hawk was the weak link, but it's become apparent that it wasn't him that caused our defensive failures. It was Capers himself. Hawk was able to mask much of the problems because he was astute at reading offenses and making calls at the line of scrimmage. Try as you want, you can't just replace this with just anyone. Both Peppers & Matthews, as good as they are as players, don't have that native ability.

If the Packers fired Capers, would they still stick with the 3-4 defense? I don't know. I don't think we have the right personnel to make it work, on a consistent basis. We have two linebackers, Matthews & Peppers, and a lot of good defensive linemen, but are they 4-3 material? I believe they are, but am not certain, because I don't know how they would react to a shift in responsibilities. Their job now, in the 3-4, is to occupy linemen, so linebackers can make plays. In the 4-3, their job is more to make tackles, by plugging lanes. It's all back to that one gap versus two gap responsibility issue. Players react differently, based on their abilities, and foot speed.

Personally, I would be willing to accept the results if they made the switch to the 4-3, but only prior to a season, not in the middle of one. It could be a disaster. Then, what becomes of Matthews & Peppers? Would they be able to adjust well?

[happypacker]

well the owner of the lions,,, Ms. Ford just Fired her top two men.mayhuy? I hope that the owner does not get Elliot Wolf, we can use him