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Post by TW on Jul 22, 2012 11:51:25 GMT -5
I saw Steven Rattner interviewed on GPS this morning. It was an interesting study in taxation.
He stated flat out that he didn't feel that Romney cheated on his taxes. He said it wouldn't be worth it, because within the system, there are so many nook and cranny laws written into the tax codes that you don't really need to cheat. You just need good tax attorneys, like Romney employes.
He indicated that someone of Romney's financial status, more than likely ends up with millions of dollars of deferred income which isn't even taxed each year, and is quite legal.
He also stated that Romney was full of hot air when he said that at Bain, he created jobs. He indicated he was in the same kind of business himself at one time, and the only agenda they had, like Romney had, was the bottom line - profits. He also indicated that Bain was one of the major players in the field who relied heavily on outsourcing to foreign countries, to make stock in ventures look favorable.
He also indicated that wasn't against the law.
My question is this. Based on these facts, Romney doesn't need to answer to anyone on his taxes.
But it does leave the question of morality of purpose on the table, and that's where the Democrats will probably head, in the near future.
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Post by packerconvert on Jul 22, 2012 13:08:36 GMT -5
Romney didn't build Bain Capital. Big Government building people like Amoeba did, ergo, Amoeba and Government goons outsourced those jobs.
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Post by happypacker on Jul 23, 2012 12:09:32 GMT -5
I saw Steven Rattner interviewed on GPS this morning. It was an interesting study in taxation. He stated flat out that he didn't feel that Romney cheated on his taxes. He said it wouldn't be worth it, because within the system, there are so many nook and cranny laws written into the tax codes that you don't really need to cheat. You just need good tax attorneys, like Romney employes. He indicated that someone of Romney's financial status, more than likely ends up with millions of dollars of deferred income which isn't even taxed each year, and is quite legal. He also stated that Romney was full of hot air when he said that at Bain, he created jobs. He indicated he was in the same kind of business himself at one time, and the only agenda they had, like Romney had, was the bottom line - profits. He also indicated that Bain was one of the major players in the field who relied heavily on outsourcing to foreign countries, to make stock in ventures look favorable. He also indicated that wasn't against the law. My question is this. Based on these facts, Romney doesn't need to answer to anyone on his taxes. But it does leave the question of morality of purpose on the table, and that's where the Democrats will probably head, in the near future. Exactly, TW, and they just had on the national news last night, that Mitt Romney was paying 15% tax rate for his hundreds of millions just because he has million dollar lawyers who know the written tax laws that the very same rich people bribed the Congress to pass as law. Yet the middle class must pay from 28% to as high as 39% |
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Post by packerconvert on Jul 23, 2012 12:13:30 GMT -5
Can you get anymore condescending and insulting to the middle class happypacker?
They know how to read too, it doesn't take some rich dude to read the tax laws.
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Post by TW on Jul 23, 2012 13:25:53 GMT -5
Actually, the vast majority of middle-class people haven't got a clue on tax laws. The only thing they see is a 1040 and a book roughly 1/8 inch thick, that they use, to navigate through their taxes.
Even worse, most go to a "tax person" who quite honestly is only versed in conventional 1040 taxes of simple income, and even the auxiliary forms they fill out do not include the more complicated offerings.
That's why the wealthy have tax lawyers, who work, to get them every break they can. Of course, that's smart, they can afford it.
I think the point Happy was making is that the Tax codes/laws, are pretty complicated, and I think he's right. The tax codes are what define what you can, and can't do, specifically, with monies. They are written in such a manner that being good at interpretation, is a job onto itself. There are literally thousands upon thousands of codes, and you need to research them to determine how they fit into your taxes.
Happy also stated that many of the tax codes were written with intentional loopholes in them. I don't think anyone will argue against that point. Lobbyists make sure elected officials don't jeopardize their clients incomes.
So, I think he's absolutely right. Do I blame it on Republicans? No! Not alone. I blame it on both sides of the aisle, as they've allowed lobbyists to determine how much leeway they have in hiding income for the wealthy.
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Post by packerconvert on Jul 23, 2012 15:36:35 GMT -5
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Post by happypacker on Jul 23, 2012 18:54:51 GMT -5
MY best friend is a CPA and he has gone over many a clause in the tax laws that i and most anyone cannot figure out, nor do they waste there time trying, they go to Hand R block etc, also you are correct, there ARE middle class that take the time and can navigate through the many pages of the tax laws to HELP in there tax, ONLY difference is, if you are in the lower income of the middle class, and not wealthy, the lop holes do not refer to you. really, i am just letting you know the wealthy have it nice, when it comes to paying taxes, they even get automatci extentions because they have more to fill out, lots of quricks that many have no clue. My Uncle was a multi millionaire and he really surprised me on some of the things he was allowed to do to decrease his payment(if he had one) and the general public cannot.
TW, you are so correct in what you have just written.
I can tell you about the perks that Congress gets that i think would amaze you in some of them.
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Post by packerconvert on Jul 24, 2012 14:42:15 GMT -5
The perks as,you call them, are available to everyone. I defer a lot of my income and taxes and have a smaller taxable income when Mr. "I Can't Read Written Tax Law" CPA guy gets done with my taxes.
What the hell are you guys bellyaching about?
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Post by TW on Jul 24, 2012 16:03:14 GMT -5
So, you make enough money of people's Social Security, and Medicare, that you need a tax attorney to defer income.
Based on Walker's plan, you're obviously milking to government cow, and should be cut back to a fair income level, like the guy working at Earl's gas station in Nekoosa.
Just saying, if you make it enough, you can afford to pay a tax attorney, and despite what you say, the average middle-class American cannot put away money that easily. They need what they make, to meet the bills.
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Post by happypacker on Jul 24, 2012 17:41:47 GMT -5
The perks as,you call them, are available to everyone. I defer a lot of my income and taxes and have a smaller taxable income when Mr. "I Can't Read Written Tax Law" CPA guy gets done with my taxes. What the hell are you guys bellyaching about? you missed something, unless you make the roughly same amount of money as the multi millionaire, you do not have the same type of write offs as him but the ave middle class. you are mistaken. i just went through some of the public records today, to find a friend and this person owns a home in a very well to do area of my town, he is a millionaire. he gets a tax break on his assesment of the home by over 50%.he need not pay on that 50% I cannot get that on my home, he does because he has the special laws just for that income bracket. so in other words when his home was worth 2,3 million he other need claim 1.15 million |
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Post by packerconvert on Jul 24, 2012 17:43:10 GMT -5
I mis-stated. I put 10 percent of my income into HSA and/or 403B; pre-tax of course (ergo deferred taxes), because it's legal. That lowers my taxable income. And yes, I pay a tax accountant $180.00 a year to make sure Government goons stay away. I am as Middle-Class as they come. People would be surprised what they can put away if they choose to. How am I able to put 10 percent of my income away. Well that's a funny and I will share it with you since it is the 2nd anniverary of me quitting smoking. The 10 percent I put away is the same 10 percent that I spent on cigarettes. Now that I quit smoking, I need to fund a retirement.  BTW: Its obvious that happypacker has not learned that I am a contrarion by nature. ;D |
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Post by happypacker on Jul 25, 2012 6:00:47 GMT -5
i a just making replys from the other side of view. It is interesting in reading views from other people and what they feel about the way things run. I love good conversation!
are you going to vote for Romney?
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Post by packerconvert on Jul 25, 2012 14:39:05 GMT -5
Do I have a choice?
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